Solutions Anyone?

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Solutions Anyone?

Post  Admin on Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:40 pm

Just want to get any ideas for a solution if this happens.
so far ive had had create a giant VPN, and some votes for extreme violence

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Re: Solutions Anyone?

Post  Peanutt010 on Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:50 pm

First of all ty m8 for the forum.
Unfortunately its bedtime for me now.
But ill put some brainfarts here tommorow.
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Re: Solutions Anyone?

Post  azvareth on Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:53 pm

Just joined to see if this becomes something...

It is late for me too...

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Re: Solutions Anyone?

Post  Admin on Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:56 pm

yeah, i hope it works out, but if it doesnt, no harm really, it free. ill give a few of you privelges if i can work out how, and if its needed

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Re: Solutions Anyone?

Post  calvorin on Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:58 pm

Night, Peanutt... As for solutions, it's pretty simple. At this point, wait and see. Piracy is big business, and I don't think governments or ISPs really want to stop it. They grandstand and make sweeping promises like this to quiet the whiners. They might nab a few people, just for show. In the US at least, those folks will get off if they have a decent lawyer. This mandate is clearly illegal search and seizure, as it asks for mass 'searches' without a warrant. But many folks don't get adequate legal counsel, so some might get hurt by it. But overall it's just a smokescreen to make it look like they are doing something when, really, they aren't.

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Re: Solutions Anyone?

Post  Peanutt010 on Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:04 pm

if this becomes a double post im soz.. i tried a edit but it doesnt seem to work so ill make a new reply.

To fire up some discussion ill quite some of the more interesting idea's ive seen on TPH

The VPN

IMO it is plausible. ISP's are required to monitor the "open" internet traffic. However VPN (virtual Private Network) is still protected by corporate law, to protect against business spying etc.
A VPN can be looked at as a LAN, so files can be shared like your on the same internal network and traffic is encrypted.
And because most of us are not as geeky as they should be, there are a lot of programs that create the VPN connection for you automaticly and makes it as easy as setting up your email.
So the solution might be to create the largest VPN ever seen, until that gets banned ofc.
Acces could be provided on invitation, as is now the case with some torrent sites/buletin boards.
Biggest problem would be: wo would manage it, and how would we set up the sharing so it would become fair to all.

The incomplete file system:

Such an idea should be using some kind of: hmm don't know the word... let me explain

Comp1 have File as parts Block1, Block2, ...
Comp2 have File as parts Block1, Block2, ...
...
As long as several sources exists for this file neither Comp1 or Comp2 should be able to distribute the whole file

CompA want this file, and asks for it
somehow CompA by a public hash somwhere or by XOR (DeEncrypt routine) of the blocks received, make it a working file from CompA and CompB

This should also be a distrubuted system so a request for FileBlock5 from Comp2 very well may be fetched from Comp10

ahh this needs a separate forum to be discussed, I am not even sure if anyone understand me.

Excersising legal power

The democratic countries use the 3 power system.
1: the goverment (to make laws) 2: the court (to uphold the laws) system 3: the people (to override laws, or to request them)
So if all of us would rise up together we would be able to stop it.
In that case if you wanna fight sign petitions etc do what ever you can.
If the complaining group of people is large enough, laws cant be passed!

Why we fail at exercisong legal power


you're principally right, but don't overestimate the power of pirates.
we pirates tend to overestimate our power as well as politicians tend to underestimate it.
we might be many (over the world), shit we might be even LEGION, but we don't hold the political power as e.g. the middle class (ok, i don't know how powerful the mc is in your countries, but in germany it's significant).
if a politician goes too far with a law, it's often not the people who go on protesting against that law that prevent it (they help by keeping this issue in the media), but the "silent" minority who sit quietly in their living room and present the check when they go voting for that "other" guy who opposed the law.
that's true power, VOTING, and i'm always anew surprised (and frightened) how many of my fellow pirates simply DON'T GO VOTING!

Hope this jumpstarts some discussion
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Re: Solutions Anyone?

Post  Peanutt010 on Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:05 pm

That last quote is hitting the nail on the head imo.
This is where "they"get the better of us.
We are just to lazy to act
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Re: Solutions Anyone?

Post  calvorin on Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:08 pm

What we all need to do is gut our governments. Take all their power away. That's what we've finally started working on here. We don't need some Nazi dictator telling us what to do and how to think.

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Re: Solutions Anyone?

Post  Peanutt010 on Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:10 pm

Night, Peanutt... As for solutions, it's pretty simple. At this point, wait and see. Piracy is big business, and I don't think governments or ISPs really want to stop it. They grandstand and make sweeping promises like this to quiet the whiners. They might nab a few people, just for show. In the US at least, those folks will get off if they have a decent lawyer. This mandate is clearly illegal search and seizure, as it asks for mass 'searches' without a warrant. But many folks don't get adequate legal counsel, so some might get hurt by it. But overall it's just a smokescreen to make it look like they are doing something when, really, they aren't.

Verry true... Money is prob better spend on fighting drugs etc.. However what worries me most is the window that will be opened.
Since if this passes... we are 1 step closer to a fully monitored and controlled world. (already half way there).
And 1 day a leader will come allong that pushes those rules just a bit further... and then a other one.. and then before you know it we are not talking about piracy anymore.
But about the serial number tattood on our foreheads.
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Re: Solutions Anyone?

Post  Peanutt010 on Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:11 pm

Funny how we both are thinking of nazi's
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Re: Solutions Anyone?

Post  calvorin on Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:12 pm

Peanutt010 wrote:Funny how we both are thinking of nazi's

I just realized that too... We are actually both on exactly the same page even though it didn't look it at first

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Re: Solutions Anyone?

Post  Peanutt010 on Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:15 pm

anyway realy gonna sleep now.

Bummped the TPH comments with a "Fight the good fight: http://antiacta.motionforum.net"
Try doing something simulair collect some more souls

Goodnight guys
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Re: Solutions Anyone?

Post  calvorin on Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:16 pm

night

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Re: Solutions Anyone?

Post  Admin on Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:25 pm

shit, wrote a long post and it didnt go up. anyway, night guys, and thanks for support

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Re: Solutions Anyone?

Post  Peanutt010 on Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:35 pm

1 more stupid brainfart before i go to bed Smile
This one just focusses on the sharing of stuff, ill leave the bigger nazi-conspiracy stuff for tommorow

on account of sharing video and music:

Having only part of a copyrighted file is (imo) legal, as long as its not the complete thing.
So as long as we keep the files from being complete it could be OK. ie. a mp3 file split and stored on 3 seperate pc's/connections

Full Storage and playback of that file would be impossible due to it needing to be incomplete. But streaming would be a posibility.
So we would have the tracker like thing tracking wich piece is where, and if you would start the stream, you would automaticly switch to the next part needed. It should be a loop for "downloading things".
Currently home connections may not be up to it, but since where i live the 100/50 MB lines are becomming normal it may just be possible in the near future. (asside from the tech stuff, im just a theory crafter)

Anyway thats my brainfart.... burn it, rip it to shreds or what ever you like Smile
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Re: Solutions Anyone?

Post  Admin on Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:56 pm

im asking one of my friends, i think hes doing computer sciences at imperial, so he should be able to help with the ideas, if not with the actual program we would need (hes a fairly good boy, and i doubt he will do something potentially illegal)
but i think the files would have to be layers of the mp3, not complete clips. also, i think mp3 is already layerd, so maybe we would be able to make mp1 formats, and stitch them together? anyway, hopefully ill have some answers sometime soon

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Re: Solutions Anyone?

Post  Darkenmal on Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:49 pm

Admin wrote:im asking one of my friends, i think hes doing computer sciences at imperial, so he should be able to help with the ideas, if not with the actual program we would need (hes a fairly good boy, and i doubt he will do something potentially illegal)
but i think the files would have to be layers of the mp3, not complete clips. also, i think mp3 is already layerd, so maybe we would be able to make mp1 formats, and stitch them together? anyway, hopefully ill have some answers sometime soon

Interesting..

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Re: Solutions Anyone?

Post  666madmike666 on Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:06 pm

There is a way kinda like a playlist, You can make WMP WinAmp or w.e Playlists and add the links for where to grab the song parts from.

All it requires is the file parts to be hosted on other areas.
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Re: Solutions Anyone?

Post  GSArora on Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:11 pm

On the TPB file for the ACTA leak, one guy said we should start a whole new internet. That is, IMO, not plausible. But, an idea I did have, is we have a network of users and downloaders, who download the file in pieces, never the whole thing, who than spread that out to other users in their area. Elaborate, and hard to put into action. But if this law passes, were all boned anyways. Does that make sense Question
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Re: Solutions Anyone?

Post  Peanutt010 on Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:20 pm

Other brainfart... dammit now i cant seem to sleep anymore.
On the VPN/shield/tracker/split file idea.

Point of entrance is still the main weakness since this is clearly marked with a username and password on your ISP's side.
And so traffic can be decoded/monitored or destinations could be filtered.
Even with the VPN thing if your ISP would susspect it of being a source for you to get copyrighted material, they would block that VPN/shield.

Now since im one of the old men here Twisted Evil i remember Phreaking
Wich to make a long story short was the FREE utilisation of communication lines (phone) due to explotation of maintanance routines etc.
I also remember a conversation i had with a IT guru. In wich he clearly stated that at this point in time it was also not impossible.
It was simply the number of gates you had to pass. Now the solution wont be as easy as back then (a simple dail code to idicate you where a engineer testing a line) But im sure someone somewhere will hit his head on a sink and come up with something (like was the case with IP adresses, p2p traffic, and basicly the entire internet).

I will try and dig around to find a active phreaker interested forum (they are bound to exist) as these people may be a great help in securing step 1 of the counter.
(remember main problem of ACTA is that your ISP is forced to controll your connection, and to get to any IP adress or website you need to go through them)

Far fetched i know, just tossing the ball somewhere Smile
But he i im tired but to worked up to sleep Smile


In reply:

@666madmike666 - yes thats exactly the idea, and it seems simple enough to succeed.

@GSArora - The new internet would be the VPN/shield, however acces to this is the main problem.
Also the non-complete file system needs to stream. otherwise at one point you will have a full copyrighted file on you PC wich would be illegal (if found ofc)
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Re: Solutions Anyone?

Post  GSArora on Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:26 pm

Alright, that won't work. How about every Pirate sending emails to their government, protesting the law? Or focusing on one country at a time? If we set one specific day to send an email to a government, they'd have to see how many people are against it, right?
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Re: Solutions Anyone?

Post  666madmike666 on Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:32 pm

GSArora wrote:Alright, that won't work. How about every Pirate sending emails to their government, protesting the law? Or focusing on one country at a time? If we set one specific day to send an email to a government, they'd have to see how many people are against it, right?

Spam Mail FTW!

Its crazy enough to work.

Also Not all ISPs require a username/password, The ISP I'm using doesn't require any setting what so ever, But they give every modem they give to us a special name so they'll still know who you are, Unless you hack your way into their settings and change it they'll know who you are. (There are ways to hack into the ISP I use modem, been into the settings myself once by accident, so I can now they're not that clever with securing their modems.)


Last edited by 666madmike666 on Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:35 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added something)
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Re: Solutions Anyone?

Post  GSArora on Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:35 pm

I'm totally serious here. How about on April 17th, coinciding with the date TPB founders were sentenced to prison, we should all send an email to our government leaders.

And, at the Mike dude, what country are you in, if you don't mind me asking?


Last edited by GSArora on Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Solutions Anyone?

Post  666madmike666 on Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:36 pm

We need to get our governments email addresses, Not that hard to find I suppose.
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Re: Solutions Anyone?

Post  Peanutt010 on Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:54 pm

I agree with the peacefull protest of the spam mailing.
It sounds like a good way to get a message acros.

The email adresses shouldnt be hard to find since you can actualy just request them.
ofc these wont be the adresses of the minister but you should at least be able to request a adress for complaints.

666madmike666
Also Not all ISPs require a username/password, The ISP I'm using doesn't require any setting what so ever, But they give every modem they give to us a special name so they'll still know who you are, Unless you hack your way into their settings and change it they'll know who you are. (There are ways to hack into the ISP I use modem, been into the settings myself once by accident, so I can now they're not that clever with securing their modems.)

M8 what you called "hacking isp" is actualy just accessing your modems configuration (yes i know you used your browser...just believe me), the problem lies further beyond that point.
And if a ISP doesnt use the username/pass system (kpn/upc/etc) they give access based on MAC adress (ziggo).
Problem is that your line requires to identify itself at a point to gain access to "the highway" at the NAS (network access server)
Witch you see as the water tap in your house, but reversed. If you go true the tap to the network of pipes behind it. some1 needs to open it first.
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